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A new documentary is reigniting questions about pop icon Michael Jackson. Airing on HBO, “Leaving Neverland” profiles two men who say Jackson sexually abused them as children. One of them, Wade Robson, testified in Jackson's defense during a trial that saw him acquitted of child-molestation charges. John Yang talks to director Dan Reed about why he wanted to tell the troubling story.
Read the Full Transcript
- Judy Woodruff:A new documentary is reigniting questions about the life and legacy of pop icon Michael Jackson.John Yang has the story.And we want to warn you that some may find the details disturbing.
- John Yang:Nearly a decade after his death, multiple Grammy winner Michael Jackson's music and showmanship can still cast a magical spell. But questions about his private life can still cast a dark shadow.In 1994, Jackson paid more than $20 million to settle a lawsuit alleging he sexually molested a 13-year-old boy. And, in 2005, he was acquitted on 10 counts of child molestation, serving alcohol to a minor, conspiracy and kidnapping.Now accusations of inappropriate conduct are back in the headlines with 'Leaving Neverland' a two-part four-hour documentary to be broadcast Sunday and Monday on HBO. The film tells the stories of James Safechuck and Wade Robson.Robson, a dance teacher who did choreography for NSYNC and Britney Spears, says Jackson initiated him to sex when he was 7 years old, and the pop star was 31. He alleges the behavior continued for seven years.
- Wade Robson:And he started talking about how much he loves me. What this is, is us, and how we show our love for each other, that other people are ignorant, and they're stupid, and they'd never understand.If they ever found out what they were doing about this sexual stuff, that he and I would be pulled apart and we would never be able to see each other again, and that he and I would go to jail for the rest of our lives.
- John Yang:Safechuck, a former child actor who appeared with Jackson in a Pepsi commercial, says Jackson abused him over six years, beginning when he was 10.
- James Safechuck:Secrets will eat you up. You feel so alone.
- John Yang:Their families tell how Jackson won their trust.
- Woman:He just came across as a loving, caring, kind soul. It was easy to believe that he was just that.
- Laura Safechuck:Michael's gone, but it doesn't change the fact that he destroyed these people, and that the world still goes on loving him.
- John Yang:On 'CBS This Morning' this week, Jackson's family launched a preemptive strike against the film and the accusers.
- Man:We know our brother. And Michael wouldn't do anything like that. And then he waits until after the passing of Michael, 10 years later, just to come out and to state his?And he's — they're still in court with — with the estate, suing them for hundreds of millions of dollars.
- John Yang:Jackson's estate is suing HBO for $100 million. It claims the film violates a non-disparagement clause in a deal the network made in 1992 to broadcast a Jackson concert.In a statement, HBO said: 'Despite the desperate lengths taken to undermine the film, our plans remain the same.'To discuss the film, the director, Dan Reed, the director, joins us now.Dan, thanks so much for your time.What was your intent? Why did you want to tell this story?
- Dan Reed:The intent rose out of an opportunity, which was my accidental discovery of Wade and James, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, who I read about as the plaintiffs in a civil suit against the Jackson estate.So here were two young men who claimed that, as children, they had been sexually molested by the singer. It seemed to me here was an opportunity to try and find out if these guys had something true to say, whether they were genuine. And, if they were genuine, perhaps there was a way to finally delve a bit deeper into this controversy that had lasted for so long.
- John Yang:How did you determine or how did you satisfy yourself that they were genuine now?
- Dan Reed:Well, the reason why Wade in particular, because Wade was an adult when he testified in Jackson's favor in 2005 during the criminal trial, the reason why Wade changed his story — and that's what it looks like, and I can understand why people query that — that story of Wade's awakening is the story of the film.That's — you know, it takes four hours to unpack that. And when you reduce it to its simplest, Wade, as a child and as a victim of Michael Jackson, formed a deep attachment to his abuser. He fell in love with Michael, and that relationship shaped his teenage years and his adult life, up to, you know, until his mid-20s.So he's 22. He stands up in court, and he knocks it out of the park in defense of Michael. And he is defense witness number one, and probably one of the important reasons why Michael was acquitted of the child sex abuse charges of the 13-year-old Gavin Arvizo.So, why did he change his mind? Well, he didn't want his mentor, his — the man that he had been in a sexual relationship with, his idol, the man he really admired, he didn't want him to go to jail. And so he lied.And then it wasn't until a few years later that he had a child of his own, he had a young son, and he describes the moment when he looks at his son, and he imagines Michael doing to his son the things that Michael did to him, to Wade, as a 7-year-old, and becomes enraged, and can't stand the thought.And then that — that prompts him to look deeper into the way he thought about his own relationship with Michael. And that's when he started beginning to consider it as abuse, because, up to that point, it was just like a special relationship with Michael that had a sexual component, but was also about a bunch of other things and was deep emotional attachment.
- John Yang:We mentioned the lawsuit from the Jackson estate against HBO.The Jackson estate also complains that you didn't go to them to get their side of the story for any sort of response. What's your response to that?
- Dan Reed:Well, let's think about this for more than a second. I don't make any allegations about the Michael Jackson estate in my film. They're barely mentioned.I don't say that they molested children. So, why would I go to them for comment? They don't know anything of any use about what happened behind a locked bedroom door between, let's say, Wade Robson at the age of 7 and Michael Jackson.What the Jackson family do admit is that Michael spent many nights, many, many nights, in bed in the company of little boys. You know, they have never really disputed that. And so — and they have not disputed that Wade and James had long acquaintance — acquaintances or friendships, if you like, with Michael.So, there are many, many facts about this story that are easily corroborated. But the central fact is the question of what happened behind those closed doors. That's the central question of the film.And I don't think that the family or the estate have anything useful to say about that. And they also have a massive interest and a big financial vested interest in trying to cover it up. So, they certainly weren't credible or impartial witnesses in the story.
- John Yang:So much of the reason for all this attention to the film is Michael Jackson. But, as a viewer, I found most affecting the story of these two young men and the effect that this had on them and their families.And I would like to play a little bit of James Safechuck talking about the effect it had on him as an adult.
- James Safechuck:One of the weird things is not liking yourself and not knowing why. Like, I didn't know why I had these problems or felt these ways, constant anxiety and depression, and not knowing why you are like that.
- John Yang:Now, he could be talking about the effects of something at the hands of a priest, a teacher, a coach. It doesn't have to be a celebrity.Talk a little bit about that part of the film.
- Dan Reed:Well, what this film is really about is two families coming to terms with the disclosure of a long-held and very dark secret, which is there — the sexual abuse of their sons at the hands of Michael Jackson.Now, it's not about Michael, it's not about — it doesn't really matter that this was a pop star. I mean, I guess of course it matters, because this is a story that now is important and significant because of because of Michael's magnitude in our culture.But this could easily have been a story about an uncle or a priest or any trusted figure, any figure of authority that a mother or father might trust to spend time with their child. And that's how I want people to see this film.I think it's a — it's a valuable document which chronicles, over two decades, the story of a family's entanglement with a predatory pedophile.And that pedophile, as I say, could be anybody. And I think that's what I want people to take away from this film, like, this could be anybody, and this is how it happens. They don't grab you. It's not a guy in a dirty trench coat waiting at the school gates who bundles the child into a van or an alley.It's your — it's the man or the woman that you trust with your child. One of the things you need to watch out for as a parent is anybody who takes — who pays more attention to your child than you would normally do, and anyone who takes — who seems to have more care about your child than is normal. And he said, that's a real telltale sign.So I would like people to watch this film and kind of be educated about how child sexual abuse and grooming really happens.
- John Yang:Dan Reed, director of 'Leaving Neverland,' which is on Sunday and Monday night on HBO, thanks a lot, Dan.
Since her kids aren't her meal ticket anymore, Kate Gosselin is shopping a dating reality show. - [TheSuperficial]
Demi Moore is completely devastated over photos showing Kutcher cozying up to Mila Kunis. - [Fox]
By banning almost all guns, Japan has virtually eliminated all shooting deaths, down to only two gun-related homicides per year in the entire country. - [TheAtlantic]
A boy obsessed with Britney Spears dropped $60k to have a sex change to look like her. - [DailyMail]
Jackson Family Estate Vs Tumblr
Read this adorably normal note Bob Dylan wrote to his neighbor Katherine Hepburn. - [Gothamist]
Zombie nouns are invading your lexicon! - [TheAtlanticWire]
Kirstie Alley is being sued by a customer claiming her weight loss program was a misleading lie. - [GlobalPost]
The day before her birthday, Jennifer Lopez's boyfriend was caught viewing a live peep show. - [WWTDD]
The 21 funniest sports moments featuring Will Ferrell. - [BleacherReport]
Headline Story: As the Jackson family implodes, it just proves money can't buy stability..or sanity..or common decency..click through to read the whole timeline. - [OhNoTheyDidn't]
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Michael Jackson‘s family have advocated for his innocence once more following Sundance Film Festival’s premiere of Leaving Neverland — the upcoming four-hour HBO documentary.
On Tuesday morning, brothers Tito, Marlon, Jackie, as well as nephew Taj Jackson, addressed the claims that the “King of Pop” had sexually abused several young boys in the 1990s and 2000s during a brand new two-part interview with CBS’ Gayle King.
The film was spawned from recent sexual-abuse allegations made against Jackson following his death, by two men who befriended the singer during their adolescence.
Although none of them have seen the movie, the Jackson family previously spoke out against the exposé piece in January, claiming it was “a public lynching” against the late singer.
“This documentary is not telling the truth. There has not been one piece of evidence that has corroborated their story,” claimed 61-year-old Marlon.
(L-R) Wade Robson, Dan Reed and James Safechuck pose for a portrait to promote the HBO/Channel 4 film ‘Leaving Neverland’ at the Salesforce Music Lodge during the Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah.
Taylor Jewell/Invision/AP, FileREAD MORE: Michael Jackson estate calls disturbing ‘Leaving Neverland’ allegations a ‘public lynching’
“You say that it’s lies and that you don’t intend to see it,” said King, “but how can you complain or challenge something that you have not seen?”
When challenged about their collective decision not to watch the Dan Reed-directed piece, Jackie, 67, replied, “He’s my little brother. I know my brother. He’s not like that.”
“Don’t you feel that you need to see [it though]?” she replied.
Since the Smooth Criminal singer first went on trial in 1993, his family has consistently defended him; claiming that he had no ill-intentions with any of the children he became close to.
“I don’t have to see the documentary, added Jackie, “I know Michael, I’m his brother.”
“I know what he stood for and what he was all about… Bringing the world together and making kids happy.”
The supposed victims, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, came forward in 2013 and 2014 respectively. Together, with the same attorney, they launched lawsuits against the Jackson Estate.
In 2017, both cases were dismissed due to the statute of limitations.
WATCH: ‘Leaving Neverland’: Michael Jackson’s legacy facing new sex-abuse claims in HBO doc
READ MORE: Jermaine Jackson speaks out against ‘Leaving Neverland’ documentary
Light armor trainer morrowind. Years prior to the allegations, the two denied any counts of sexual abuse involving Jackson and even defended him during his 2005 trial.
In wake of the Leaving Neverland controversy, both are now seeking an appeal for their lawsuits.
Along with two of the men involved in the People v. Jackson trial, Robson, 36 and Safechuck, 41, will be interviewed by King on Thursday before the television debut of Leaving Neverland.
Taj Jackson, 45, revealed that he had been present at a number of Jackson’s sleepovers when he was a child. He claimed his uncle never had the capacity to see his actions in a sexual way and that it was all “very innocent.”
“My uncle didn’t have that bone in his body to look at it the other way,” he claimed. “I think that was the thing, that his naiveté was his downfall in a way.”
Taj further claimed the accusers only wanted money from the Jackson estate. “It’s always been about the money,” he added.
“I hate to say it, but when it’s my uncle, it’s almost like they see a blank cheque.”
Michael Jackson with Jordan Chandler at Disneyland Paris on July 27, 1993, in Paris, France.
Alain Benainous / Gamma-Rapho via Getty ImagesREAD MORE: Michael Jackson estate sues HBO over documentary
Although, HBO and Time Warner were sued last week for allegedly violating a 1992 contract to air a Jackson concert, the companies have not changed the premiere date of Leaving Neverland.
Leaving Neverland will air in two separate parts on March 3 and 4 respectively.
Following the conclusion of HBO’s highly-anticipated Michael Jackson exposé, Leaving Neverland, Oprah Winfrey premiered her very own special, entitled After Neverland, on Monday evening.
The HBO/OWN exclusive saw Winfrey, 65, conduct a one-hour interview with director Dan Reed, Wade Robson and James Safechuck — the latter two being the driving force behind the making of Leaving Neverland.
Although the two previously defended Michael Jackson (under oath) during the People v. Jackson 2005 sexual abuse trial, Robson, 36, and Safechuck, 41, individually accused the late King of Pop of molesting them in 2013 and 2014 respectively.
They are the two most recent men to accuse Jackson of sexually exploiting them during their childhood. In 2017, their cases were dismissed.
Winfrey delved deeply into the long-spanning allegations and ultimately questioned the innocence and intentions of Jackson. As a result, Winfrey is now facing a major amount of backlash from long-time Jackson supporters.
Jackson fans across the globe have flocked to various social media platforms to send the host their hateful messages — many claiming that After Neverland is strictly “one-sided” while urging others to #MuteOprah.
Michael Jackson with 10-year-old James Safechuck on his private tour plane on July 11, 1988.
Dave Hogan/Getty ImagesREAD MORE: Michael Jackson sexual abuse allegations: A timeline
Winfrey is known widely for her history in social activism and works aimed to expose sexual abusers and pedophiles, which is why many believe After Neverland stays true to her format.
However, there are many opponents who are questioning her intentions, including some who claim she conducted the interview for the “ratings” or “numbers.”
After Neverland came as one of Winfrey’s infrequent television appearances following the conclusion of her own talk show, The Oprah Winfrey Show, in 2011.
The OWN special was filmed in front of an audience of about 100 sexual abuse victims — a factor which many dedicated Jackson fans believe made the interview entirely biased.
A timeline of Michael Jackson’s sexual abuse allegations
Although the special never averted the topic of the singer’s supposed sexual abuse crimes, Winfrey claimed that the whole point of After Neverland was to raise awareness about sexual abuse, rather than just to tarnish Jackson or his legacy in the public eye.
“The movie transcends Michael Jackson,” claimed Winfrey to her audience. “If it gets you to see how [sexual abuse] happens, then some good would have come of it,” said Winfrey.
“This is a moment in time that allows us to see this societal corruption,” she added. “It’s like a scourge on humanity.”
While some supported Winfrey’s supposed intentions, many others weren’t quite convinced that she wasn’t trying to target the Smooth Criminal singer.
WATCH: Why exactly was ‘Leaving Neverland’ created?
READ MORE: Michael Jackson estate sues HBO over documentary
Following its premiere, Jermaine Jackson — Jackson’s older brother and former Jackson 5 bandmate — took to Twitter to share his opinions on the matter.
He called out Winfrey and reiterated that Jackson was proven innocent through trial back in 2005 and that too many people are ignoring “the facts.”
“So many in media, including Oprah, are blindly taking #LeavingNeverland at face value and shaping a narrative uninterested in facts, proof and credibility,” he claimed.
“Trial-by-law proved Michael’s innocence long ago,” he continued. “Fact.”
So many in media, inc @Oprah, blindly taking #LeavingNeverland at face value, shaping a narrative uninterested in facts, proof, credibility. We faced similar 'graphic' claims + trial-by-media in '05. Jury saw through it all. Trial-by-law proved Michael's innocence long ago. Fact.
— Jermaine Jackson (@jermjackson5) March 4, 2019
Following its Sundance premiere in January, members of the Jackson family have continued to publicly denounce Leaving Neverland.
Collectively they’ve referred to the film as a “public lynching” against the singer. The Jackson estate sued HBO in February for allegedly violating a non-disparagement clause in a 1992 contract, which precluded the network from disparaging Jackson in the future.
The company ignored the suit and refused to change the premiere date or alter the contents of Leaving Neverland.
Brenda Jenkyns and Catherine Van Tigem protest the film ‘Leaving Neverland’ screening at the Egeyptian Theatre at the 2019 Sundance Film Festival on Jan. 23, 2019 in Park City, Utah.
David Becker/Getty ImagesREAD MORE: Michael Jackson’s family responds to ‘Leaving Neverland’ claims: ‘I know my brother, he’s not like that’
An abundance of Jackson supporters proceeded to call Winfrey out for her friendship and involvement with Harvey Weinstein — who has been faced with a countless amount of sexual abuse claims.
This led to many accusing Winfrey of picking and choosing who she publicly ousts.
Your a sellout and a parasite and two faced. Anything for ratings and fame and trying to still be relivant. Destroying a innocent man's name and Legacy just to make yourself look good, and keep the attention away from the real monsters out there.
— paul colebrook (@paulcolebrook14) March 1, 2019
@Oprah when you do one sided interviews with zero research- await the repercussions – also called Karma. You have been setup for huge disgrace and failure. Your trust level is at a possible zero forever…
— Mr DT arsenalfantv (@truths_d) March 5, 2019
So when is Oprah going to interview the 'John of God' victims, serial rapist & fraud she helped to promote? I'll wait. #muteOprahpic.twitter.com/UkJoiWfI4B
— Suh (@thebluesky_9) March 5, 2019
Oprah showing them she can drum up numbers and drama. Hope the cheque will be worth it
— x (@ejumane) March 4, 2019
One sided hit job! Oprah why didnt you invite corey feldman or taj ? #muteoprah
— Monique (@Monique87066298) March 5, 2019
YOU WERE SAYING OPRAH? pic.twitter.com/oymplZTBbo
— Gerardo David Muhammad (@GerardoDavidMu2) March 5, 2019
oprah's lost all her credibility with this one #MUTEoprah
— oj (@ojrwx) March 5, 2019
Oprah I dont think theres much juice in Michael Jackson bones at this point. What about your friends Harvey Weinstein or John of God who have sexually abused 100s of people #AfterNeverlandpic.twitter.com/8djQ44dwQx
— AgentAG (@AGENTAGX) March 5, 2019
Oprah is something else. Talking about the seduction of celebrity as if she hasn't sold her journalistic ethics for fame and money. #MUTEoprah
— andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) March 5, 2019
Oprah invited Monique’s brother who abused Monique on her show to speak along with her alcoholic father and mother she is not on good terms with in the audience. Now she is letting proven liars tell their onesided story. #MuteOprah#CancelOprah
— Dai ? (@ALovelyDaii) March 5, 2019
I don’t know if these guys are telling the truth… but I see so many holes in their story and I thought Oprah would get to the bottom of it… instead of piling on a one sided story #AfterNeverland . #DamnOprah
— Lyin Like Jussie (@DrewWUD) March 5, 2019
Is Oprah gonna do a doc about this Harvey? pic.twitter.com/svl0LJyLbw
— Vlad (@wavy80baby) March 5, 2019
Instead of watching #leavingneverland I will be keeping up with the #HarveyWeinstein trial you know a real sexual abuser that @Oprah is trying to cover up
— Tristan Smith (@tristanmsmith99) March 5, 2019
Well Oprah starts with an unbiased audience full of victims of abuse #AfterNeverlandpic.twitter.com/pQeefwu06V
— Very Liza ♀ (@VeryLiza) March 5, 2019
The Jacksons invited Oprah into their home, let her interview his children for the first time. Made Michael and his family believe she could have been a genuine friend. Her friend Harvey asks for help now look. #AfterNeverland#MuteOprah#CancelOprah
— Dai ? (@ALovelyDaii) March 5, 2019
Sorry Oprah,
But who changes his own version cannot be believed.#LeavingNeverland#AfterNeverland#MJInnocent#PROOFpic.twitter.com/oS7Ng8dh1L
But who changes his own version cannot be believed.#LeavingNeverland#AfterNeverland#MJInnocent#PROOFpic.twitter.com/oS7Ng8dh1L
— Innocent.⚡ (@esselwt) March 5, 2019
This is your reminder that billionaires shouldn't exist and anyone who is one is deeply, horrifyingly unethical. Yes, even Oprah
— Maddie (@mellowmadds) March 5, 2019
How do yall feel about Oprah doing this One Sided Documentary bout MJ??
— Slinx2⃣4⃣0⃣0⃣ (@Slinx_2400) March 4, 2019
Called Directv today and canceled both HBO and OWN channels…. today is a good day #MuteOprah#cancelhbopic.twitter.com/TUoU3dR3CV
— Michael J. Jackson? (@Mjonline2) March 1, 2019
#MuteOprah and #CancelOprah quickly shot to the top and became trending Twitter topics.
The Jackson estate has continuously suggested that the “allegations would not have been made” if the King of Pop were still alive to defend himself.
Michael Jackson with Jordan Chandler at Disneyland Paris on July 27, 1993 in Paris, France.
Alain Benainous / Gamma-Rapho via Getty ImagesREAD MORE: Michael Jackson accusers detail alleged sexual abuse in first TV interview
Jackson Family Estate V Tumblr Wallpaper
During the premiere of Leaving Neverland, the Jackson estate made two of the singer’s concerts available to stream “for a limited time” on YouTube.
The 1992 concert Livein Bucharest (The Dangerous Tour), was available, free of charge, during the first part of the documentary, while the Live at Wembley Stadium concert premiered the following day.
Many believe the Jackson estate’s actions were made to derive or “distract” viewers from signing up for HBO and watching Leaving Neverland.
WATCH: Jermaine Jackson speaks out against ‘Leaving Neverland’ documentary
READ MORE: Michael Jackson’s family responds to ‘Leaving Neverland’ claims: ‘I know my brother, he’s not like that’
Whether it be the handful of sexual abuse allegations made against him, the premiere of Living with Michael Jackson (2003), Leaving Neverland or After Neverland, many different things have contributed to the dwindling of Jackson’s persona since 1993.
To this day, the truth about Jackson remains unknown, but the singer was never found guilty of any crime in a court of law.
Jackson denied all sexual assault accusations throughout his life, and since his death in 2009, he’s been unable to either defend himself in the court of public opinion, or confess to any of the alleged crimes.